Oleanders/Trees Project

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SHGA Communications
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Oleanders/Trees Project

Post by SHGA Communications » Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:13 am

The work party on Saturday, Aug 26, cleared most of the dead oleanders from the west side of the parking lot. This improves the look of the LZ. It also somewhat reduces privacy.

Should the club plant additional Oleanders? There is no consensus on oleader disease among experts. They suffer from leaf scorch and bacterial gall, both of which are incurable when established. Some garden stores no longer sell oleander plants for that reason. However, vast Socal highway zones continue to support healthy trees. Oleanders, once established, should not be irrigated, and therefore cannot coexist with water-hungry plants. Oleanders grow realatively quickly, at a rate of several feet a year, and many species can be 30 feet tall. A 5-gallon specimen is about $15.

Should the club plant trees on west parking lot?
The trees on the east side of the parking lot seem to thrive, and are welcome for shade. It has been suggested that trees be planted among the remaining oleanders (if they can coexist). They would add visual appeal and provide shade for the parking lot.

Members have already pledged tree money (see "whack cam" thread).
Don $100
Christian $100
JT "matching"

JBBenson
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Post by JBBenson » Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:22 am

Because of my landscape design experience and contacts, I can get almost any tree at wholesale, and free delivery in most cases. If you know what you want I can place the order. Payment will be due upon delivery.

I recommend the following instead of oleander:

Hopseed Bush - Dondonaea viscosa. Looks great and is approved by CDF as being fire-resistant. Inexpensive. Purpurea has a nice reddish leaf, could give the LZ a little color.

http://cals.arizona.edu/pima/gardening/ ... scosa.html

As for trees, these are nice: Rhus lancia, Carob tree. Also fire-resistant.

http://www.plantzafrica.com/plantqrs/rhuslancea.htm

Or Shinus molle, California Pepper. The Brazilian Peppers are too agggressive.
Last edited by JBBenson on Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Christian
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Post by Christian » Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:35 am

Jesse,
Great information. Do you know what the existing trees are? Could we match them on the east side?

JBBenson
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Post by JBBenson » Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:04 am

I think they are Shinus molle. The biggest one could install without alot of drama and machinery would be 24" boxes. Lots of hand labor though.

Available right now are:

24" Standards (one trunk ending in a crown) that are 11-12 feet high and 5 feet wide. 129.00

24" Multis (spreading, multiple trunks ending in several crowns) that are 7-8 feet high and 5-6 feet wide. 143.00

Bigger boxes (36" and 48") of course have bigger trees, but are quite an act to get into the ground. Cranes, forklifts etc., also may need guy wires etc.

36" approx 375.00 and 48" approx 950.00.

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stebbins
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Post by stebbins » Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:17 pm

I am of two minds about this.

First, shade trees sound nice, and where these would be shouldn't cause any air-turbulence problems.

Second, if we put in trees like what we have already, we are unlikely to have the same privacy that the bushes gave us.

Which matters most, shade or privacy? I don't really know. Can we combine them? I don't really know?

Anyone have any ideas? JB seems to have the info, what does he think?

But I DO think we need to plant something there.
Fly High; Fly Far; Fly Safe -- George

JBBenson
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Post by JBBenson » Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:18 pm

Hopseed Bush - Dondonaea viscosa (green)

15 gal. 43.00

Hopseed Bush - Dondonaea viscosa Purpurea

15 gal. 45.00

15 gal are maybe 5-6 feet high and 3-4 feet wide. Would have to check to be sure. They move and flutter nicely when the wind blows.

http://www.nzplantpics.com/pics_hedges/ ... all_01.jpg

JBBenson
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Post by JBBenson » Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:44 pm

Plant a row of Dondonaea viscosa Purpurea for privacy. They are cheap and look good. Low maintenance, and CDF approved re: fire.

Plant a few of the 24" Shinus molle for shade. Be prepared to wait awhile for the pepper trees.

If you want to go bigger with the trees, the big ticket items for installation are: digging the big holes (i.e. backhoe) and craning it in (36" box maybe 3000 lbs. 48" box maybe 5000 lbs. Heavy.)

Dont forget hauling away the soil, (maybe 300.00 for the container).

It may be possible to have the trees delivered on a flatbed with a crane, but this requires that the holes are prepped. Offload reach is maybe 12-15 feet from center of truck, so the truck will need to pull up right next to the hole. This sometimes limits where the tree can be placed.

I am not convinced that even the bigger trees will give you the shade desired. I will get the specs for 36" and 48" and post here for review.

JBBenson
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Post by JBBenson » Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:16 pm

Specs / Available stock:

Shinus molle - California Pepper

Standard 36" box - 12'-13' tall x 8'-9' wide
Multi 36" box - 11'-12' tall x 7'-8' wide

Standard 48" box - 17'-18' tall x 8'-9' wide
Multi 48" box - 14'-15' tall x 10' wide

Dondonaea viscosa Purpurea- Purple Hopseed bush

15 gal. - 5' tall x 2.5' wide

jimshaw
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Trees on the west side of the driveway?

Post by jimshaw » Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:52 pm

HELLO!

Why trees??? They provide no privacy and WILL NOT give shade except to those cars parked in the street (please remember where the sun is and where the shade will be thrown).

The only thing the trees will do is cover up the view of hang gliders going west! Oh, along with more maintenance and water!

HELLO!

Jim

jimshaw
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Post by jimshaw » Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:58 pm

And for those of you who will say, 'what about when the sun is in the west'? Well, on those really busy days when cars park on the west side of the driveway, the last couple hours will shade them, but little else. Let's see, block the view to the west, more maintenance, more water and for what?

I know I am being a butt head. Just want to get the point across. No offense. I just like what little view of flying gliders we have left!

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Christian
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Post by Christian » Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:37 am

Jim, you tree-hugging squirrel-kisser:

No one hates trees and living bushes as much as I do. No one loves a blazing hot parking lot more than me . No one will miss the view of Greblo's roof more than I, if these miserable water-sucking monstrosities go up on our west margin. What's more, these so-called trees are foreigners--look at their names. I preferred the dead oleanders, until a cabal of activist vegetarians stepped in and hacked them down.

If trees for the parking lot, then what? Trees in the middle of the LZ? Trees on launch?

If God had intended shade, would he have given us hats?

I rest your case.

jimshaw
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Post by jimshaw » Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:39 am

...not quite so fast Christian. My rebuttal to your post:

I would rather not see Joe's roof AND CONTINUE TO SEE our local mountains, condors, hawks AND hang gliders instead of HAVING IT ALL BLOCKED (I see you snuck bushes in there when all I protested to are trees)! Oleanders can grow to 30' tall, along with other bush types, plenty enough to cover the neighborhood AND NOT the view of our majestic mountains, condors, hawks and gliders! I believe the vast majority of tree-hugging, squirrel-kissing club members like me would agree that our majestic mountains, and all they have to offer, are a much better view than a row of trees in your face!

Additionally, Trees WILL NOT stop the hot parking lot. Remember how much we have to hug the trees with our gliders just to get in the shade, at least until waaay late in the afternoon? Same shade cover with the proposed trees, early shade on the west side to shade right at the trunk until late in the afternoon.

Christian, if you want a cooler parking lot the only way you will get it (short of trees planted in the middle of the road) is to tear up the asphalt and plant grass. Certain types hold up very well to car traffic! I will donate $1000 toward this project if you, Christian (or anyone else for that matter), will push it through.

By the way, broad stroked and incorrect blanket statements against others do little to advance the club.

Finally, Christian, thanks for giving me the inspiration to articulate my thoughts on this subject in a more complete manner.

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stebbins
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Post by stebbins » Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:25 am

OK, I'm not arguing either way, BUT, I do want to set the record straight:

Shade from trees on the fenceline will cover cars in the late afternoon. Isn't that the time of day when it matters most? Isn't that when we actually get into our cars? Who cares about shade at noon? I'm going up the mountain then!

My suggestion is some trees (or bushes) that are high enough to give late afternoon sun, but not high enough to block the view of the mountains. My recollection (I'm not in the LZ right now) is that the existing trees block the view of the Western portion of the mountains anyway. One must get up, walk to an appropriate spot (usually the parking lot) and look. Maybe I'm misremembering.

In any case, I agree that tall trees are probably not the best solution. Short trees or tall bushes would make me happy. I agree that whatever we put there should be low maintenence, low water types. The oleanders were great in that they needed almost no maintenence until they died. ;-)

Either way, we NEED a screen from the neighbors. Those of you (not me) who drink beer should be most concerned about this fact. The less we look like drunken hooligans the better. Perception is important. Besides, bushes cut down on the noise that we project into the neighborhood.

Just my two cents worth.
Fly High; Fly Far; Fly Safe -- George

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Christian
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Post by Christian » Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:29 am

A fine rebuttal, brother Jim. Personally, I'm a fan of east shade trees to eventually provide afternoon cover and give the lot a "grove" look. Bushes and trees, even better.

As a practical matter it will be years before the young trees we can plant will block out much of anything.

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Chip
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Spitting in the wind?

Post by Chip » Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:41 am

I suggest this might all be a moot point considering some people's predictions of the cavernous road going to launch. Maybe our money would be better spent for road improvements and better water run-off to prolong the inevititable.

If we were to lose the Kagel launch would our country club atmosphere dry up as pilots sought other places to launch from? If so, would the time and effort to put in trees and whatever else be worth it?

All that said, I like the mixed approach but also wonder about the trees and how they will effect the wireless signal coming from the Windsports house (just another point to consider). 8)

Carol
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Post by Carol » Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:48 am

Fast growing vines would be inexpensive and easy to care for. These plants are hearty and would fill in nicely along the fence making a good privacy screen.

Some Suggestions:

Snail Vine
Honeysuckle
Trumpet Vine
Solanum
Jasmine

Also, take a look around the neighborhood to get some ideas. Many homeowners plant hedges and vines for privacy between yards.

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Christian
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Post by Christian » Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:38 am

>>>Kate is working to improve our existing gardens
--Lynn

Kate, would you be willing to take the lead on this trees/oleanders/bushes project as part of your garden oversight?

I'm sure you could call on any of us in this thread as your workers and committee members.

Kate
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Oleander Hedgerow Initiative

Post by Kate » Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:51 pm

Kris Greblo and I are in the process of identifying some native shrubs that are similar in size to the Oleanders, provide a year round screen, and need no maintenance once established. If anyone would like to make suggestions, please let us know. I think adding some diversity to the hedgerow would make it more interesting and less susceptible to wholesale destruction from pests. We are hoping to identify some "candidates"that are particularly attractive to birds and butterflies.

More to follow on this topic....

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Christian
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Post by Christian » Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:08 pm

Great. We're standing by with the shovels....

Steve Clark
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Post by Steve Clark » Sun Apr 08, 2007 2:37 pm

I have a suggestion on what we might plant on the hillside, my dad (Buddy Clark) used to have these very attractive plants growing in our front yard they were primarily green leaves with pretty orange flowers on them. They promoted pollination, humming birds and butterflies which are also pretty. These plants quickly became bushes which need to be trimmed now and then and created a very nice barrier between the house and the street. They are low water low maintenance plants. They are a form of "Honey Suckle".

Anyway, talk amongst yourselves.

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